tasman1 wrote: Month $73.33,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Second worst month in last 5 year , January was worst month in last 5 year

Year $334.11 ,,,,,,,,,, bad , very bad for 4 month

Lifetime Total $10,211.62

wow right again I had predicted you would earn around $75, close enough

Could be worse. Anyhow my April has been the best in 3 bloody years $120 on this site, and $25 worth of OpinionWorld surveys only on 1 other site, total $145.

So far this month of May it is complete and utter rubbish, all survey invites here are now junk, on any given router.

Now we play the role in reverse, we create AI in hopes it will make a better world, and the result, world goes bonkers ........WE are now the Gods creating AI

Arvind9 wrote: Even in the Himalayas snow is melting faster the winter was not so severe in the North one of the main reasons for rising sea levels is faster snow melting due to rise in temperatures,urbanization is causing more problems its defined as development by destroying natural habitat some Indian citys have accute water problems because there is not enough water to support the. Scale of Urbanization if rainfall is not normal it will spell disaster

World population is growing fast..........people are becoming hornier and making more kids they don't want or can't afford........some countries have billions in populations, I mean there is only so much you can fit - where do these billions of people live ? I mean here we have millions and no housing for everyone, imagine if we had billions here it would be total chaos......... This is why a new world order law should come into practice about reproduction - BAN it for a determined period of time, whilst monitoring the total population count, AND require competency assessments before children are brought to this world, avoiding unwanted births, since some corrupt to the bone politicians in America would rather take decisions on what people do to their own body. Can we really allow unlimited new births now with the state of the world ? Nobody can seriously condone unlimited abortions for any reasons either, and nobody can police sex, so how do you control world population ? INCENTIVES......... instead of how things are right now, where the more babies you make the more money you get, basically incentivizing promiscuity and unwanted births, they should instead impose penalties and hefty taxes or other measures to discourage people to have kids, AND of course avoiding the abortion loophole people would use, as a birth control method, all this needs to be controlled. Abortion should be allowed under only some very specific circumstances and NOT as a birth control method......

So yeah everyone is talking about global warming - but few are talking about the bigger problem - OVERPOPULATION !!!

Arvind9 wrote: Indians are fuming as Elon Musk lands in China to discuss driverless cars, Indians saying why do we need this guy he has no respect for us ,RESPECT in business does it exist

Sure it does, if you have deep pockets, know when to accept bribes, know how give bribes and know the rules of monkey business, sure I think Musk is a clown, of course China would bow down to his Majesty, I don't trust anything with Musk's involvement. As far as self driven cars, no thanks, there are many situations / edge cases where only a human can take last second life saving decisions, that any AI would FAIL, it's no wonder there are so many incidents involving self driven cars. If people were driving in a disciplined way, self driven cars would be great, as you could train AI with specific models.......But in today's world, people are driving like there is no tomorrow, like a bunch of crazy arseholes. Would that self driven car know how to react if that car coming in opposing side does a last minute turn in the wrong lane ? Nope...... So as far as I'm concern Elon Musk needs a reality check.

Maybe self driven cars could work in China or other countries where people don't drive like a bunch of tossers But here in the Americas, not a bloody chance it would work

valerie wrote: Silly boys!

America just prints more money.

It can't, it continues borrowing and borrowing and borrowing, and maybe printing a little but not too much - problem is, this debt that you have, what is it now, $34 TRILLION.............. how the bloody hell are they going to pay that ??? The two biggest lenders are Japan and China, it's funny how countries keep on lending money to those with colossal debt, it's more like a giveaway and not a loan anymore.

and here our provincial debts are in the billions and we think that's a lot

Since the US is throwing money here and there, why isn't it doing something about the streets roaming with thugs, criminals, homeless, drunks, drug junkies ? Why isn't it doing anything about the skyrocketing poverty ? All of a sudden when it comes to dealing with your own problems, you don't have enough money, BUT when people from outside cry for help, those billions and trillions of $ come flying out the damn window......... Instead of spending all that money outside, they should continue building that nice big shiny wall.....and keep the gangs, thugs and cartels at bay!

It is interesting, 2 votes for Winter, great, I'd love to read the reasoning behind it. Our winters here are so weird, this season we had a very short winter, all the snow storms and snow fall happened in January, that's it, February, March and April were bone dry, no accumulation of snow on the ground and mild weather. So I consider that we did not have winter this year. TO ME, this would be the ideal season, few days of snow, few days of bone chilling cold from time to time followed by mild to cool weather, PERFECT What I don't like are winters where you have snow storms every other bloody day where you have to spend your entire day outside blowing and shoveling the F* snow. We started our winter like this with back to back snow storms coming from either Texas or Colorado.

Besides, with global warming now we might just have one season - hurricane, tornado and rain season all year long ....

But hey some politicians (corrupt to the bone, incompetent and dangerous) prefer spending trillions of $ outside their country, here and there, instead of doing something concrete about important issues. If global temps keep on increasing by even 1-2 degrees year to year this is going to be a MASSIVE problem. But no, politicians would rather spend money on their own interest and that of deep pockets and drunks who vote for them........

tasman1 wrote: Water Heaters here are about same as in USA or Canada 1600-1800

Wow that is bloody expensive, how many gallons is it ? The price will vary based on volume. Example, here for a typical 60 gallon you can find some for $600-$700, and the more expensive premium ones (eco friendly, 2 rods, etc) for under $900!!!

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Old one did burst , winter is coming so I did take what they did have here and they changed all pipes for fit

How old was it ? Did you flush the tank every year ? I know a lot of people around me who have had their tank burst. Personally it never happened, and usually there are signs that appear months or more before it happens.

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Living on far away Island is different , you pay more for some shit but at same time some shit is cheaper , much cheaper here
Home and car insurance are just half price here , that saves us here well over 1000 a year , home prices are 30% cheaper and so on and on ..... mix of good and bad

That's nice, but do the insurance companies pay if you may a claim ? Here for a typical 1900 sqft home, insurance can cost $1500/year AND with all kinds of restrictions, if water damage is caused by a water heater that is over 10 years, they don't pay, water boiler tank for home heating, 25 years, etc, here insurance companies find ANYTHING and ANY reason not to pay, a lot of home owners get screwed over, because there is ALWAYS something in a home that is not up to code or stuff that was ignored by inspection, or hidden defects that was not possible to see.

Here home prices have TRIPLED since the ********* pandemic, homes that sold for $300k in 2020, now sell for $700k, and some over $1 million........... RIDICULOUS. OLD bloody homes, that are in need of SERIOUS repairs. Imagine spending $700k for an old home here, only to find out that you have to redo your french drain around the foundation..........that'll cost you $70k here + a landscaper to redo lawn, tiles, etc.

valerie wrote: The old water heater worked fine. The key word in that sentence is 'old'.

Yeah some GOOD quality more expensive water heaters can last a very long time, but the insurance company scammers want you to change them every 10 years even if they are like new and no signs of rusting. Some tanks come with 2 anode rods, in fact, if your rods are not all chewed up, instead of changing the whole bloody tank, you can change the rods, since those are the ones that get corroded first, and only once they are worn down, will the actual tank itself start to rust, and those rods are not expensive.......BUT many home owners here are forced by their home insurance company to fully replace the tank every 10 years no matter what the condition is. RIDICULOUS.

A well maintained tank can last well beyond 10. Some can last 15-25 years or more. Few people maintain them or flush them yearly. Problem is, removing the anode rods is a pain in the arsehole some are sealed shut and tight, and if you manage to remove it, you will not get the same perfect water seal as you did with the original.

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If I had known all I needed was some pies, I would have gladly baked a few. ahahahahaha

I accept blueberry or cherry pies.

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I sold my new home a few months ago and downsized to an older home. I've been doing some upgrades. The water heater was 12 years old. That's about the standard life span of a water heater over here. It's possible it could have lasted longer. A well known plumbing biz 'Roto-Rooter' quoted at $1,729.00. I went with a local small family plumbing biz and paid $1,158.00. That's for the new water heater, pan, install, everything.

Roto-rooter is a rip-off. and $1,158 including tax too ? That's OK, you could have done better had you selected and purchased your own water tank and only paid for the install. Watch out, some plumbers will bring you brands / models that are not top quality, and so in that case you did not get a good deal. If you were to go to the hardware store and choose your own quality and have it delivered, you would have saved an extra $200-$300.

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Water heaters are somewhat complicated. I have an electric water heater. A gas water heater involves much more work.

Same, electric........ Some people assuming that the tanks last 10-12 years, but the best way to know for sure the state of your water heater is look for rust spots outside the tank, smelly hot water or completely worn out sacrificial rods, unfortunately, you cannot remove the rods on your own unless you have special tools for that (and remembering to empty the tank a little and shut off the cold water valve So most people say F it, and just change the whole thing.
Life span can vary based on use and water quality in your area, the more you use hot water, the more fresh water comes in, accelerating corrosion. Without sacrificial rods, your tank would rust in no time. The whole business is a SHAM, you would think that in 2024 they would have enough technology to build better tanks with thicker more resistant structure that could last well beyond 10 years.....but no, it's a business, they make those in a way you are forced to buy new ones .......just like cars and everything else.

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Australia, the plumbing may be different for faucet connections. Over here, I would simply turn the water connection off, remove the old faucets, remove the water lines from under the sink, screw/replace with the new water lines under the sink, attached to the new faucets, and turn the water back on. Normally you will have cut offs under the sinks to turn the water off to that sink. That would be in the form of a handle or a knob that you either flip up or down or turn left or right to disconnect and connect the water flow. I've used a hole saw to cut out additional holes for at the sink when needed such as for dishwasher, sprayer, or soap dispenser. Changing out faucets in sinks, is very easy. The problem might come into play if it is a shower/bath faucet without a good access panel and no shut offs.....you'd have to shut the water off at the main.

Problem is, many home owners do not exercise their valves, they end up in the same position for so many years and once you need to use them, they can start to leak, that's another issue too. Some older homes have very old type of valves (the round knobs) those are the worst and they tend to leak.

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You may have forgotten, my husband was a contractor. He built houses. We built our own house. I learned a lot from him over the years. Altho he was not a licensed plumber, he could install water heaters. Altho he wasn't a licensed electrician, he could run wires. In the USA many States require a license for work such as water heater installation and electrical wiring. He did the work when we built our house and simply had a licensed plumber and licensed electrician approve the work.

I can do work and not licensed electrician, etc, BUT here, insurance companies require the work to be done by a licensed worker, and believe me the jobs done by those licensed worker are not always up to par, in fact some are horrible. For electricity, it is not all that complicated if you can understand the basics of ow it works, and the right gauge wires that go with the amperage you use, but one of the most important aspects, CODE, electrical work has to be done up to CODE (NEC)....if you live in a house, it is almost 100% guaranteed you will find SOMETHING that is not up to code, even in new homes, even when the work was done by qualified plumbers or electricians. I have seen this myself and it's scary.

But having the work done yourself and having licensed workers just come to inspect, that's news to me, how much do they charge you for that ? I don't know much contractor that will accept to just come and do this - they are in the business of doing jobs not approving DIYers work, if they did, they would be out of business. Here you would have to pay $500-$600 for an inspection, BUT if anything happens (plumbing incident or electrical) and insurance companies are involved, they will find every bit of excuse to deny your claim - the first thing they ask is WHO did the job....Oh it was you the home owner, OH OK, denied. But wait, work was approved by a licensed contractor, WELL, approved, but not installed, so all insurance would be void here.

BUT some home owners secretly do work without declaring it, that can pass in some cases, but it can be a dead giveaway to an adjuster, especially if you replaced very old wires with new ones, and for plumbing jobs it's even more visible if something was installed fairly new.

Rewiring a house is not that complicated, neither is installing a new electrical panel, just get the right torque wrench, screw drivers, clamp and other testers and you are good to go........reading about the NEC codes is a must, I'm pretty sure a DYIer would be able to rewire an entire home here for under $1k including a new panel....instead of the up to $10k it would cost you otherwise.

Arvind9 wrote: I selected spring its 31 deg just comfortable in a country over 1.4 billion humans cramped sweating over each other ,I dont use public transport its crazy,there is no winter here it never goes down below 30deg through the year

Wow, really, 30 degrees ? and you selected SPRING and said 31 deg comfortable, YIKES, that's scorching hot ....... Here our hot summers during heat waves consists of temps in the 34-39C, it can get REALLY hot here, in fact for some Canadians if temperatures were to drop to mid 20's, it would be like winter

31C is comfortable to you maybe because you are used to much higher temps. As far as public transport, yes it is quite crowded and smelly But some people have no choice to take it as only means of transport and not everyone wants to ride a scooter in heavy traffic

valerie wrote: I said summer.

Sure, no surprise there

You like chasing tornadoes just like in the movie Twister

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If I chose any other month, I'd possibly starve to death.

Really ? Are people living in Alaska or northern part of Canada where it's cold af starving to death ? I hope not

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Darkstar2, a lot is all about what you are use to.

That's true - BUT I would rather have snow storms and cold than deal with tornadoes and hurricanes which seems now a common thing in America - it's so devastating to see people lose their homes, lives and everything they worked hard for in an instant. Canada is not immune from that anymore, we have our share of tornadoes and hurricanes in areas that never had them before - Weather has been so brutal the past years and still some people think global warming is not a thing ! We've had our first big thunderstorm last night, it was quite the light show.

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Air conditioning is a new invention. In many Southern USA States, there are some houses with very large ceilings. The reason they were built with high ceilings was to allow the heat to rise above in order to stay cooler at ground level. You'd also find many fruit cellars, that kept foods cool and dry in addition to extending the life of the food.

That's practical to have high ceilings, though not much if you wanna paint or do electrical work, you would need one bigger ladder or a folding scaffolding, and you better not be afraid of heights. So when you have that very high ceiling, it's harder to catch that crawling spider or bug crawling ! A high enough ceiling might be able to help as heat rises, BUT, it won't work on its own. You would need good windows and door insulation so new hot air does not come back in. Also if your attic is well insulated, that heat will not escape, so high ceilings in this case would not provide enough cooling, in fact air exchange vents allow for that.

AC is quite expensive to install and run, and is also a great source of pollution, then you have windows AC which is the cheapest option, if you can find someone to install it and have the right tools, still consumes a lot of electricity and cools only a room. Central AC is only for the super wealthy here, if you can afford paying $60k to have your walls and ceiling torn down to pass all the ducts, and spending thousands of $ yearly to maintain and clean ducts, then summer is never an issue, it's cool everywhere in the house. I have a through the wall AC and a windows AC in a room, it's barely enough to keep a room "comfortable", but bedroom is hot like a sauna in the summer - one of the reasons is that I have my computer tower which generates heat on its own, it's like a space heater. Problem #2, old homes have poor insulation, cold draft in the winter, heat coming in during summer, so the effect of AC does not last. If I turn off AC, it becomes warm again within half an hour.

I think the ideal season for most Canadians is Autumn, some Canadians prefer Winter because they are skiers ....

There are 2 reasons I could not stand summer all year round, too bloody hot, too many bugs flying all over the city, EVERYWHERE, very large wasps flying everywhere, ants, scorpions and large spiders everywhere, you'd think you were in Asutralia

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I can't sleep when it's the least bit hot. Before air conditioning, people slept no matter how hot it was. They wore long dresses, long sleeves, suits, etc in the hot humid days of summer.

How ? Try sleeping in your long trousers, long sleeves, coat on, gloves, scarf etc and see how long you can handle it assuming you survive to wake up the next day and not die from heat

Some people sleep completely naked and put wet towels on their body......I'm not a fan of that, I wear short sleeves and shorts, all year actually, even in the winter (I mean indoors ) I can stand cold....

valerie wrote: I chose human since I am already an ass.

and a monster ?

When I saw this topic I thought it had to be the work of Tasman1, shocked, it wasn't

I'd like to see what Biden would answer in this poll, hopefully he would want to be reborn as an actual human this time, one who serves the better interest, being an ass and pretending to care doesn't cut it!

I believe that governments have known for ages that alien life does exist, in fact, I do believe that aliens have collaborated with governments by providing technological advances for military and communications and much much more. I do believe aliens are among us shape shifted as human beings, there is enough compelling evidence about that.

I mean who ever could imagine we would be able to fly (planes I mean), nobody would have imagined self driven cars, AI, etc, it would be science fiction, but today reality, who do you think provided us with all the technology and know-how ? I believe other intelligent life came here and helped us. I do believe that there is a contingency plan if shit happens, a select group of politicians and deep pockets will be taken care of by these aliens and swept away to whatever other place, whilst we witness our undoing here on this planet.

I'm sure that some people have dreamed that they could have just ONE season all year long not having to deal with the disadvantages of each, BUT tastes are different. Some people would instinctively say "SUMMER!" but would people really want to live hot and humid weather all year long, scorching hot sun, deal with dangerous insects and bugs, sleepless nights because you are too poor to afford spending $50k a year just to operate central AC in your home ? But what about WINTER...no bugs, no humidity, warm and cozy and can sleep, and if you are cold you put on some clothes.......

So WHAT IF there was the perfect season ? My personal vote goes to Autumn. In my opinion it is the best season sine you get a bit of everything - you can get hot, cold and in between - but not hot enough to burn your skin to a crisp and not cold enough to get frostbite and lose your limbs ......... To me an ideal season is where the sun sets early and it is totally dark at around 4pm, and it is cold and chilly outside. There is nothing like that feeling coming home and transitioning from COLD to warm and comfortable. PLUS you don't have to deal with piles of snow, freezing rain and more.....you have some periods of sun, mild weather, and other days where it is colder.

But sometimes I wonder, I kinda like unconventional, I love twists, so how about a season called SWUMMER, it's both wolrds into one, you would get one hot summer day followed by one day of bone chilling cold and snow, OR one week of hot sunny summer followed by 1 week of cold winter and snow.

So, what's YOUR poison ?

Arvind9 wrote: Elon Musk makes India a joke,he created a lot of hype about investing in India and put it on hold his visit was seen as something to celebrate showing desperation,reasons cited has been drop in Tesla sales and profit and general unfriendly investment climate in India,some foreign companies have been taxed unreasonable just to make money taking advantage of the hype that India is a growing economy or an ILLUSION

Elon Musk is THE joke........ Besides it's likely that your country's economy and stability is doing better than ours over here The only downside is your weather - too bloody hot

Elon Musk is no different than the mad and greedy corporate type with deep pockets - I wouldn't buy any of his rubbish products or even use them if it were free.......Look at all the recalls in Tesla and all the incidents, you would think you are spending big money on quality. Anything that has his bloody name associated with it I would stay far FAR away and I would never invest one bloody cent in any of his companies or other, he's totally lost the plot. He clearly is mad and has a lot of money to waste. His decision to buy Twitter was probably one of the most idiotic mistakes (one of so many) he has made, and decided to change its name to "X" (very original indeed ) so yeah guy is bonkers, he's spend billions to buy a company that is running to the ground, he only is making it worse....... Imagine all the people you could feed with his money - why the f*ck is it that the people who least deserve it, are the ones succeeding the most financially in life, whilst the hard workers and people who bloody deserve it the most, are the ones struggling ?

kanjoormadam09 wrote: Many people believe in rebirth anf if such a thing happens what is your preference. My preference is a virus which can destroy human race and make world a better place to live in

Kinda like COVID19, but it failed miserably, because instead of bringing people closer it made people more evil than ever before.

So coming back as virus, wow that is so brutal

How about a common sense virus which will make people vote mostly Republican in 2024 so people won't have to deal with the current virus/monster another 4 years ?

As far as the poll, sorry but I cannot imagine myself coming back as anything other than human. It would be a downgrade if we come back as animals or insects. Maybe we did start at the bottom and "evolved", so next iteration maybe we come as aliens and we are the ones that will fly the saucers and humans on earth will discuss UFOs, we will get our turns in next life, or maybe the one after..... or maybe humans just keep coming back until they reach a high enough grade to "level up"........Coming back as elephant, butterly, cat, dog, hell no.

tasman1 wrote:


No idea , Admin send bill in next 8-10 day
My idea it ill cost around 500

Bloody hell......... You didn't get a quote for the job before accepting ? You must have some idea no ? If not, I'd love customers like you, "hello sir, I have to change 2 faucets yeah ?" you: " SURE GO AHEAD", me: "Ok I'll send you the invoice in 8-10 days" me: Sending you an invoice for $3000

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2 mixer , one in kitchen is cheaper one 70.00 , in bathroom better one 160.00
Cost of coming was last time 160.00 , not sure now
25-30 MIN work , no idea how much now
GST [ VAT in Canada ] 10%

Yeah that minimum cost just for showing up - what inflated price though, some charge a minimum to show up, BUT includes the first hour of labour, which is fair enough, but if they charge you just to come ON TOP of the first hour of labour, that's a bit extreme, unless of course they are coming from a long way, for example, they fly their private jet to your island, now that would be costly Sure they have to cover petrol costs, but if they are 5-10 minutes away it doesn't cost them $160

25-30 minutes work it took, amazing, that's fast, some take their time.

So let's see now, here 25-30 minute of work would be billed at the HOURLY rate, which here can range anywhere from 90 up to 140........depending on the plumber, if you need an emergency you get billed double.

SO...... $120 + $100 + cost of materials, it would cost you here a minimum of $450-$500 to change 2 bloody faucets.

How much would it cost a DYIer - well the cost of buying them yourself at the hardware store + your petrol, so total cost for you would be $140-$150, now this is assuming you have the right tools for the job, wrench, torch, and knowledge too.......Most people attempting to do the job without proper tools or knowledge would end up flooding their entire home

Nobody is going to die here - Unless you are in your 90's, you shouldn't worry, it's likely the site will die first - not only this site, but most GPT in general. Some of the Crypto scammers would KILL to buy the precious GPT traffic, this is GOLDEN high converting traffic. I wouldn't be surprised if most GPTs will sell off their traffic to those sites.

I dunno how the company running this site is doing - but I personally know 2 other owners of GPT sitse that run since early 2000's, and all of them have told me that they have seen a major decline over the years, even before the pandemic, but the decline has steepened since pandemic, and have never recovered to pre-pandemic highs. I've also been told that more and more suppliers are adding automation and AI and more and more market researcher is shying away from the "incentive traffic" due to quality reasons.

One thing that is booming is mobile apps and games, a big FRAUD and deception of an industry full of evil developers using fake ads to lure downloads, when the game is not AT ALL like the ads and has crummy graphics compared to the ads. THIS is a booming industry, OFFERS, most download offers are ridden in spyware, adware and sometimes even malware. Market research the way we know it today is declining and dying.

AlicjaFi wrote: Hi, still better than nothing, as they say

SURE, if we were in the 90's
But today in 2024, these stats ARE nothing. You don't go anywhere with these earnings, in fact in some cases you spend more in electricity and computer maintenance doing those surveys than money you make, so there is no profit.

The situation here is so bad due to the JUNK invites we get, I don't know how the site determines the invites we get, but we are getting TONS of them, and 99.9% are junk, why do we keep getting the same g*****mned Samplicious invites all marked as 5 minutes, but all redirect to Toluna's ups survey router with "WE'RE SORRY", why ? WHY do we get directed to mostly surveys that have expired or closed ? SO yeah we spend most of our g******** time here answering profiles after profiles, but we know that 99.99% of the time we will not get a survey.

YET with Dynata things are different, I had near 100% success rate with Dynata's own, original surveys, and still do.

YourSurveys (CINT) is the biggest deceptive fraud - I am shocked at how they are not shut down - they are the worst crummy router when it comes to invites, they are the worst liars when it comes to LOI.

I think some GPT site owners are also paid for the traffic routers get, all the profile data they collect regardless of whether we qualify or not, SOMEONE is making big money from other stuff than just completions.

valerie wrote:

Darkstar2 wrote: Remember, money does not grow on trees, this is not the Biden administration They cannot pay us money if they do not get paid, there is no company that can sustain this model. If you want money for doing nothing, then become a politician (a Democrat), and then you can print unlimited money and spend like there is no tomorrow

Don't kid yourself. You might as well call it the Kamala administration. Or is that Tamala?

She is such a PUPPET - I cannot stand listening to her - I would much rather listen to Obama than listening to her.

It would be nice if those Tyrants of the far left hold referendums and ASK voters opinion before passing those colossal spending bills, I'm pretty sure the majority of them would not approve all this money being WASTED when there's tons of homeless people, crime and poverty within.

valerie wrote: I could have changed the faucet for you Tasmanian Ape Man.

Funny I should read about your plumbing. I had plumbers come out today to install a new water heater.

How much did you pay ? It's a rather simple job especially if you have existing pies. You just remove the existing one and replace it. You can teach a 12 year old to cut a pipe, use couplers, bends, flux, a torch and Teflon.... Cold water coming in at the bottom, hot water going up, pressure relief valve......... OVER HERE to do a job like that you would be charged $700 (labour) + the cost of a new water tank ($1000)......... what a complete RIP OFF, and insurance companies here (all scams) refuse to insure you if you do your own work, even if it is up to code.........